Whats the last item you bought?

[detroitmike]

I agree with GS...

Never really liked button down with ties....I always thought BD with tie was an American thing but it's probably common all over the world now.

It's an "Ivy" thing I'm thinking. OK by me for a casual rather than "formal" occasion

[Rod]

Back in the revival days I wore a button down under a suit with a tie but who among us was not a bit clueless then, early teenage years.

Since I came to America I took a huge dislike to the ever present Oxford cloth BD that was seen everywhere, the default uniform of the clueless and style-less.

Over time I’ve softened my approach to BDs although remain a bit baffled by the adulation they get both from office drones everywhere and Ivy enthusiasts. I now own about three BDs which I wear under a jacket without a tie.  I accept that in this scenario the BD collar stands up under a jacket and looks much better than either a polo collar which sinks below the jacket or a standard dress shirt collar which will often collapse on itself and look crap. I’m a reluctant wearer of open neck shirts but in the current clothing climate they are somewhat inevitable so I suppose a BD shirt has its place.

I think there’s an old pic of a Cary Grant wearing a BD with French cuffs.  Can’t remember but it may have been in The Bishops’s Wife (in which he wears a 3pressed2 suit) - but to me they are a bit incongruent - the casual nature of a BD collar with the dressed up nature French cuffs and links. Anyway, post pics of the full outfit and I may be convinced otherwise!

[greenstreet]

Back in the revival days I wore a button down under a suit with a tie but who among us was not a bit clueless then, early teenage years.

Since I came to America I took a huge dislike to the ever present Oxford cloth BD that was seen everywhere, the default uniform of the clueless and style-less.

Over time I’ve softened my approach to BDs although remain a bit baffled by the adulation they get both from office drones everywhere and Ivy enthusiasts. I now own about three BDs which I wear under a jacket without a tie.  I accept that in this scenario the BD collar stands up under a jacket and looks much better than either a polo collar which sinks below the jacket or a standard dress shirt collar which will often collapse on itself and look crap. I’m a reluctant wearer of open neck shirts but in the current clothing climate they are somewhat inevitable so I suppose a BD shirt has its place.

I think there’s an old pic of a Cary Grant wearing a BD with French cuffs.  Can’t remember but it may have been in The Bishops’s Wife (in which he wears a 3pressed2 suit) - but to me they are a bit incongruent - the casual nature of a BD collar with the dressed up nature French cuffs and links. Anyway, post pics of the full outfit and I may be convinced otherwise!

Not just Cary Grant, Rod, I've seen pics of some 60s rock icons wearing BD shirts with French cuffs, among them Mick Jagger, so they weren't that unusual. That said, to me they're strictly open collar shirts too, so I get your concern.

[Chilli]

Back in the revival days I wore a button down under a suit with a tie but who among us was not a bit clueless then, early teenage years.

Since I came to America I took a huge dislike to the ever present Oxford cloth BD that was seen everywhere, the default uniform of the clueless and style-less.

Over time I’ve softened my approach to BDs although remain a bit baffled by the adulation they get both from office drones everywhere and Ivy enthusiasts. I now own about three BDs which I wear under a jacket without a tie.  I accept that in this scenario the BD collar stands up under a jacket and looks much better than either a polo collar which sinks below the jacket or a standard dress shirt collar which will often collapse on itself and look crap. I’m a reluctant wearer of open neck shirts but in the current clothing climate they are somewhat inevitable so I suppose a BD shirt has its place.

I think there’s an old pic of a Cary Grant wearing a BD with French cuffs.  Can’t remember but it may have been in The Bishops’s Wife (in which he wears a 3pressed2 suit) - but to me they are a bit incongruent - the casual nature of a BD collar with the dressed up nature French cuffs and links. Anyway, post pics of the full outfit and I may be convinced otherwise!

Not just Cary Grant, Rod, I've seen pics of some 60s rock icons wearing BD shirts with French cuffs, among them Mick Jagger, so they weren't that unusual. That said, to me they're strictly open collar shirts too, so I get your concern.

A variety of views expressed about the merits (or otherwise) of BD down collar with French cuffs.  Interesting to read peoples differing opinions and reasons behind them.  Personally, I can't see a problem with it.  Like many on here, I use style etiquette to guide my thinking, but I certainly don't slavishly follow one view over another.  In my opinion, the final determinant is how something looks, not whether it adheres to specific 'rules'.  I think Brian's shirt looks absolutely fine and certainly wouldn't baulk at wearing something similar.

Brian, on a different but related issue, I've noticed that you've had a few shirts made by Lisa recently.  If you don't mind me asking, how much does she generally charge for a shirt and what's the approximate turnaround time from ordering to completion, recognising that you're based in the USA, so this will add time for delivery etc.

Cheers. 

[detroitmike]

Back in the revival days I wore a button down under a suit with a tie but who among us was not a bit clueless then, early teenage years.

Since I came to America I took a huge dislike to the ever present Oxford cloth BD that was seen everywhere, the default uniform of the clueless and style-less.

Over time I’ve softened my approach to BDs although remain a bit baffled by the adulation they get both from office drones everywhere and Ivy enthusiasts. I now own about three BDs which I wear under a jacket without a tie.  I accept that in this scenario the BD collar stands up under a jacket and looks much better than either a polo collar which sinks below the jacket or a standard dress shirt collar which will often collapse on itself and look crap. I’m a reluctant wearer of open neck shirts but in the current clothing climate they are somewhat inevitable so I suppose a BD shirt has its place.

I think there’s an old pic of a Cary Grant wearing a BD with French cuffs.  Can’t remember but it may have been in The Bishops’s Wife (in which he wears a 3pressed2 suit) - but to me they are a bit incongruent - the casual nature of a BD collar with the dressed up nature French cuffs and links. Anyway, post pics of the full outfit and I may be convinced otherwise!

Not just Cary Grant, Rod, I've seen pics of some 60s rock icons wearing BD shirts with French cuffs, among them Mick Jagger, so they weren't that unusual. That said, to me they're strictly open collar shirts too, so I get your concern.

Claudio offers French Cuff shirts with BD collars, so does A of L.
So it's not all that unusual. Just a little "twist" on tradition.

[BrianB]

I obviously like button down shorts with french cuffs, so that's why I had it made that way. Ive seen plenty of examples of it looking just right, so good enough for Cary Grant, good enough for me...and speaking of which found this article that addresses it...

"Yes, the legends are true: Cary Grant, that style icon, Hollywood favourite, transatlantic enunciator and second Greatest Male Star of All Time wore button-down shirts with French cuffs (at least a few times on camera). The Rules are clear in that this act was categorically wrong. Button-down shirts were originally sportswear and among the softest of collars, while French cuffs are stiffies best reserved for the loftiest of occasions and venues. Grant’s shirts, then, are menswear bastards — and yet, there they are. He chose them, he wore them, he didn’t give a damn. All this goes to show that The Rules can be broken with no great harm for the reputation of style icons"
(of course I cut off the end part where the writer takes a personal stab at them"

I also recall my father telling me about how when button down shirt became the rage , but couldn't afford to go out and buy new ones, so they would sew collar buttons onto older shirts (some of which had french cuffs) and it was fine back then.

As to Rod, yes it's just the way the shirt is sitting, plenty of tie gap

@Mike, good point I was about to make as well, some of the more "unquestionable" sources of mod clothing these days make them (DNA, AofL, etc), so it seems an acceptable thing.

It's all personal preference, and I have mine...some might lay outside of the circle of what consider mod, but I have yet to see the official rule book

@Chilli, I'll PM you the details outside of this thread. I think I had 4 made so far, but each case was different.

[Rod]

This business about “the rules” ...

I think at this point on our sartorial journeys most, if not all of us are aware of them, and most if not all of us break some of them some of the time, which is absolutely fine. The ‘rules’ such as they are, are a guideline and some have their roots in unassailable logic, the breaking of which would look objectively bad to anyone with working vision. (Sometimes/always/never).  Others have their roots in some long-lost spurious and ancient tradition and are wide open for acceptance, rejection or reinterpretation as we all see fit. That’s what keeps life interesting.

[BrianB]

to quote Charles Bronson from one of the best movies ever made (the Mechanic) "To get away with it depends on the book of rules you have in your pocket at the time. Your own country, somebody else's country...or your own personal book of rules"

[greenstreet]

Very interesting thread, guys, and most are valid points. Brian, the fact I don't like it obviously doesn't mean it can't look good. As Rod mentions, most rules, once you know them, become mere guidelines that can be obviated at convenience. And I'm not arguing with one of the smartest men to walk the earth... 

Look, I think that shirt of yours looks perfectly good, even BD shirts worn with ties can look good if well matched, it's a classic USA combo, it's just I don't like it. I mean, there are rules and rules: collar on your shirt has a nice roll and the colour is lovely. If you'd ordered a micro-collar BD in a loud orange... well, then you surely wouldn't be here! 

[Chilli]

Just received a couple more tops to add to the wardrobe; nothing exceptional or groundbreaking, just a few more staples for everyday wear:
https://www.modshoes.co.uk/product/the-brunswick-in-ivory-cobalt-blue-stripes-knitwear-polo-by-66-clothing/
https://www.artgalleryclothing.co.uk/product/haye-6/
and also the same top in 'Wine' which seems to have disappeared from the site!!